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Bandwidth/Speed requirements for Internet Connection

 
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bcbounders
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:12 am    Post subject: Bandwidth/Speed requirements for Internet Connection Reply with quote

When planning out a mesh installation for reasonably high-density, though spread-out housing environments (like RV Parks or Mobile Home Parks), what kind of formula should I use for planning the required internet connection speed/bandwidth? I've heard numbers like "2Mbps per 100 sites/homes", but I was wondering what kind of numbers people here would recommend?

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minbari
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

20 KBS per site seems a little lite to me. I realise they will not all be using it at once, but even if 10 people are using it, that is only 200k per user? I wouldn't pay for that
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brecklandit
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Horses for courses. i would pay for a 20k coinnnection if it was that or nothing. At campsites, we see around a 20% take up of WiFI - so on a 500 pitch site, thats 100 users. Of that 100 users, we usually see around 25% online at one one time, so thats down to roughly 25 users.

Of that, around 1 in 6 are downloading / accessing at the same time, so if we had a 4mb connection, i can pretty much guarantgee each user will have 1mb available and we *never* allow that much per user.

What I do is always budget for a 4 port load balancer into the installation cost - if the speeds gets too slow, we simply plug in another ADSL connection.

Our usual packages at campsites is 38.4k for sites running chilli, or we allocate 1mb per node on the sites running NDS.
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bcbounders
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brecklandit wrote:
Horses for courses. i would pay for a 20k coinnnection if it was that or nothing. At campsites, we see around a 20% take up of WiFI - so on a 500 pitch site, thats 100 users. Of that 100 users, we usually see around 25% online at one one time, so thats down to roughly 25 users.

Of that, around 1 in 6 are downloading / accessing at the same time, so if we had a 4mb connection, i can pretty much guarantgee each user will have 1mb available and we *never* allow that much per user.

What I do is always budget for a 4 port load balancer into the installation cost - if the speeds gets too slow, we simply plug in another ADSL connection.

Our usual packages at campsites is 38.4k for sites running chilli, or we allocate 1mb per node on the sites running NDS.

Brecklandit,

Thanks so much for the detailed information. Sounds like you really know what you're doing in this kind of environment. Out of curiosity, what brand/model of load balancer do you usually use for your installations?

I have a customer who has a WiFi system already installed (it's from a company called Checkbox Systems). It's about a 400 site mobile home park... and they only have access (right now) to a single 3Mbps DSL connection. The Checkbox system has a single "master" connected to the DSL with 12 other towers scattered throughout the park. Performance has been less-than-optimal. Some of it is issues with residents not being able to maintain a steady connection with their nearest tower due to low signal power and interference from the metal construction of a lot of the mobile homes. The rest of it is the problem of cramming so much traffic out through a single, slow DSL connection.

In talking with Checkbox, they indicated a load balancer wouldn't work with their system... as the gateway unit would be the only "client" on the balancer... so all the traffic would still go out through one or the other of the connected DSL lines. The wifi gateway device would, therefore, defeat the benefit of the balancer.

The customer would like to improve the system (residents complain bitterly about the lack of usability of the current solution), so I'm interested in Open-Mesh products due to their ease-of-use, ease-of-administration and ease-of-installation. I like the look of the Anaptyx hardware because of the 5GHz back-haul mesh capability (which should help ease/avoid interference with the client-side wifi) and overall robustness of the hardware. But the price-tag may be too high, since they've already spent a fair amount on the existing system.

Plus, I'm loathe to recommend that they spend ANY money on new/more WiFi/Mesh hardware if it will still have the same issue because of pathetic internet connection speeds.

So... long story made even longer...

Do the Robin/Open-Mesh products work differently so that the load-balancer actually has an effect?

And what WiFi hardware have you used in your campground/RV Park environments that you'd recommend (if you don't mind revealing that)?

Thanks a lot for all of your help.

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- John
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brecklandit
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

We use the TP-LINK range of load balancers, which work very well for us.

With regards to the setup of them though this is what we do:

1. 4 ADSL connect into the load balancer
2. Ethernet cable to a managed Switch
3. Robin Gateway plugged directly into the switch providing access to all the bandwidth.
4. 5 GHZ Access Point also connected to the switch.
5. At locations where there is poor speed due to hops, we install another 5ghz Client bridge, effectively creating another gateway on the network - we aim to have no more than 1 hop to a gateway.

Your situation sounds like it could benefit from the same idea - simply add a few Engenius 5610 5GHZ units or the NS2/5 to turn a few of the repeaters into access points, limit the number of hops and make sure the Load balancer works. In fact, you don't even need the load balancer if you feed the backhaul with one single new DSL Connection.

Our installs usually share the ADSL with the sites own network as well, so the Load balancer has quite a few wired devices on as well . The other benefit of course is theres no single point of failure on the DSL.

At present we are using Engenius 2611p (with a few 1650 to cover indoor areas) and Ubiquit NS M2's for the backhaul as we can simply use 1 POE to power both the NS2/5 and the 2611P.

mtlowes always has good advice to offer based on his networks and Im sure he will be along shortly.
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bcbounders
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@brecklandit - excellent! Thanks so much for the detailed information... it's a huge help. I'll definitely look into the TP-LINK hardware... as well as the Engenius/NS units to create back-haul, pseudo gateway configurations. It's a great idea!

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darrells
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the mobile home park(s), whose residents probably have access to landline phone connections, is it possible to set up DSL service at a few homes to allow additional gateways? Or maybe a manager's residence and/or clubhouse/restroom building? Might be a little tougher with the RV park(s) due to the more transient nature of the occupants.
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bcbounders
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

darrells wrote:
For the mobile home park(s), whose residents probably have access to landline phone connections, is it possible to set up DSL service at a few homes to allow additional gateways? Or maybe a manager's residence and/or clubhouse/restroom building? Might be a little tougher with the RV park(s) due to the more transient nature of the occupants.

darrells,

Could be a good option. Although, currently, the residents are none-too-happy with anything to do with the WiFi, so it could be hard to find too many of them who will be willing to "play ball" with the management and get involved. Even though that involvement would (1) improve the WiFi for everyone and (2) possibly allow them to have wired access to a DSL connection at the park's expense!

Great suggestion, though, and I'll talk with the park management about that as an option!

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- John
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