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Delirix Mesh - Powered by ROBIN

 
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ezyfi-sc
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:01 pm    Post subject: Delirix Mesh - Powered by ROBIN Reply with quote

I have been playing with the idea of assembling RouterStation-based access points, flashing them with ROBIN, and giving a generous chunk of the profits to the project. However, I am not sure what kind of interest I can generate, thus this thread.

What I'm thinking about is having dual-radio outdoor units in a few different configurations, like 5ghz mesh (omni) and 2.4 ghz client (omni), or 5ghz mesh (directional) and 2.4 ghz client (omni), etc.

I would like to know what your dream configuration is and how many you would want, assuming I can get the cost to be very reasonable (which I'm thinking is possible).

The idea of the project will be to have complete clarity: cost of parts and shipping, as well as how much is being donated should all be laid out so people can know exactly what they are buying and how they are contributing to the project. The goal is to order in bulk so you don't have to; meaning that the units would be pre-assembled and flashed with a default configuration that just works out of the box, at the same cost or less than it would be to buy all the parts individually and assemble it yourself.

A WhoIs on delirix.com shows I've been wanting to do this for awhile, so I'm sorry it's taken this long to light a flame under my you-know-what.

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Y-FI
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is an interesting idea. what about just offering models that we could attach our own antenna to, based on directional/omni needs? I have two different network models in the works, one needs directional, one needs omni for the 5ghz radio. I'd consider buying a routerstation scenario pre-built.

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brecklandit
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice idea,

I'd rather wait though to see what happens with the option to run 1 unit with Mesh only (already possible) with another running captive portal. Easier to support and cheaper to switch out broken/non working kit.

Good luck with your venture, sounds very interesting.

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robgmann
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds interesting. I think the price point will be key.
Right now, here's what I use for <$200 with everything included (antennas, POE, 2 LAN ports):
$89 - 5ghz NSM5 for backbone, 10-12dbi dual-pol panel antenna built-in (no pigtails)
24V .5A POE included
$49 - 2.4ghz mesh gateway, 7dbi panel or 5dbi omni included (EOC-1650)
or
$89 - 2.4ghz gateway, 10-12dbi panel (EOC-2610/11)

In this configuration, I can extend the network (NSM5 backbone) by 2000+ meters and the (1650) gateway serves nodes up to 1000m away.

Assuming the components of a routerstation, decent radios and small antennas are hitting around $400? I could see buying 3 at a time as I expand my service. Of course, you're not going to get rich on just me - -this is only my nights/weekend job.
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cephalopod
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's the state of robin on the RS? I have an RS Pro, and the last time (a few months ago) I tried it wasn't working.
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ezyfi-sc
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well the idea for cost-cutting is to use the stationbox, with custom panels for the RS. The stationbox has the option for built-in directional antennas as well as spots for n-bulkheads on the top. The 5ghz MIMO directional model is about the cost of the no-antenna model plus an n-pigtail anyway so either model would be about the same price.

To address whether this will be a successful venture, I'm honestly not looking to get money out of this, I'm thinking 50% of the profit margin goes to Antonio if this ever gets off the ground.

Edit: For example, One hypothetical unit consisting of 2xR52HN radios, a RS, a Stationbox (no antenna), and 3 pigtails comes to 218 on Streakwave, and about 228 shipped. The same configuration minus one pigtail and plus the internal 5ghz MIMO 17dbi patch antenna and it's roughly the same price. This is the price for one hypothetical unit. What I would aim to do is get the components in volume (as well as the accessories including power supply and antennas) in bulk and sell the assembled, flashed units for the same price as it would be to buy and assemble yourself. My job would be to cut costs by getting volume orders and reseller discounts. Then we would take that margin, split it in two, and give that amount to the ROBIN project.

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wo-fo
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had great success with these products, which already do exactly what you are describing.

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This type of thing looks good on paper, but there is much more to it than meets the eye.

Good luck with your venture. I will be interested to see if you can beat what Anaptyx has going. I think with about two years time and somewhere around $100k invested, you might be able to create something close, but it is a long shot at the very least.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

problem with anaptyx is that they only allow other anaptyx radios on their mesh cloud controller. and, you can't use a standard ROBIN build on them, so essentially you're off into a proprietary solution.
i'm not sure why $100k and two yeas is needed. If I were thinking like that, I never would have launched my wifi business. Turns out, it took a lot of time, reading, communication and trial-and-error. But I have done it on the cheap and found phenomenal support from this forum.
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ezyfi-sc
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, not a "venture", just a way I can contribute to the project. I respect and admire what Anaptyx has done and I don't aim to offend them, but what they've done isn't exactly impossible.

Thanks for chiming in, Chuck. You know how much your opinion is respected around here.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Move them to whatever dashboard you choose and nothing prevents robin from treating them just like a pico or anything else for that matter.

It's all good, wish you the best of luck - if I didn't have the same idea so long ago we probably wouldn't have seen robin for the RS early on. I've kept to my promises and even extended a further hand to robin some time ago. What a great community of people, thanks to all.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO, the competition is a good thing for users and startup wifi business. We have some new dashboards to choose from (FINALLY), and I've been hoping to see another dual radio solution out there.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rick.. I am just calling it the way I see it.. I know that my opinion means nothing to you, which is why it will be interesting to watch you dump a ton of time and money into this.

Seeing how I have done all of the things you are talking about attempting, what would I know about the subject... LOL

What I see lacking in this discussion is good common business sense.. Say hello to Loren for me... Laughing

It will be interesting to see my predictions come to fruition..

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codyc1515
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wo-fo wrote:
I know that my opinion means nothing to you

So why post at all?

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codyc1515
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, that actually made some sense. There are some important points in there.

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EricWarnke
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While what Chuck said is generally true, the tone isn't needed. Also, the fact that Chuck joined yesterday simply to harass this guy has me concerned, all three of his posts are in this thread.

With that said, however, I bet one could easily source a routerboard and stick it in an outdoor enclosure. We've looked at it in the past and actually assembled a few things. Hell, I had some fricken garbage bags wrapped around some MR3201a's in the middle of winter all meshing fine for weeks.

You don't need 100k, you need to be creative and resourceful. If you can kit together a few decent routers I think you could sell a few, but I don't think you'd make much money, or a business out of it. Good luck either way Smile

And, Chuck, there's no reason to post if you're solely here to harass or demean another user who may or may not have a wild idea.

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Keola27
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Because there are actually some serious people here who do not need to be distracted by this type of nonsense.. If I had nickel for ever time I saw somebody get the bright idea to build a product and donate the funds or not make any profit, etc.. I would be a rich man.. Business is Business and all business is retail.. period..

Do you have any idea what you are talking about doing for no profit?

I think its very Honorable for ezyfi-sc..

Quote:

You will need to source the parts and you will need to buy them in bulk, and then you will find out those are the wrong parts and you will have to send them back and find new parts.. As soon as you find the right aprts and get it all figured out, that source will dry up and you will get to start all over..

We have connections with Eugenius, Mikrotik, and Ubnt, if you need parts from any of them let me know, we buy directly from the factory and can get the best price.

Quote:

And if you do figure all of that out, you will need to find some boxes to put these things in, not some tupperware container.. And you will need shipping boxes, and fully printed instruction manuals.. You will find the antennas and pigtails and bulkhead connectors to be the most difficult part of the whole thing, and you will have a hell of a time making it water proof..

There are a ton of great after-market cases that are not too costly.

Quote:

And then you are going to have to ship these things out.. And when the customer gets them and they are all busted up from shipping, you will ahve to wait for them to come back and repair everything so you can ship it out again, but meanwhile you will be scrambling to fill the last order you got returned..

I shipped an egg to Hawaii and it didn't brake I am sure a cheap $20 cast aluminum enclosure that fits in a $15 it ships it fits package will do well.

Quote:

AND THAT IS NOT EVEN THE HALF OF IT.. YOU DO NOT KNOW THE FIRST THING ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT RICK.. You have been hanging around the wrong people lately and you are starting to sound ridiculous, just like they do..

This is a form of infiltration of your forum and your project that is called "Dissipation"... That is when someone comes along with some big line of BS that is going to save the project or be some benefit to people and it really just distracts you from the real goal and gets you way off on a tangent and dissipates your resources from achieving the real goal...

Either you get that, or you do not.. It is pretty simple really.. But these guys are the masters at it... There are several types of distractions like that going on in this forum..


So Rick, your dual router donation project isnot happeing without $100k and two years to figure it out.. who wants to bet me on that...

I agree with Chuck that this is a big task but I have talked with ezyfi-sc personally and I believe he has the innovation and motivation to pull this off.

Ez-scifi, you have our full support if you need assistance with the Robin SDK, Mikrotik firmware, AirOS SDK, dd-wrt firmware mod kit or OpenWRT SDK let me know.

PS: Sorry Chuck (wo-fo) for picking your post apart and adding my 2cents on the subject. If you feel I personally attacked you in anyway please let me know so I may correct it because that is not the intention.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've moved one of the posts to a hidden section based on its "Tone".

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think that was necessary, he was embarrassing himself anyway Wink

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anaptyx
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saw our name mentioned on here - appreciate everything everyone said. Best of luck of course, we are obviously not going after the same goal so no hard feelings there. If you'd like to talk sometime in private please let me know - I will certainly not knock your motivation but I suspect that with or without funding there are definitely aspects to this that most people don't/will not understand until you get fully operational and it even becomes more difficult to manage these processes with the more you sell.

Again, don't mean that in a bad way - I am just meaning that we originally approached this with the same thoughts "how hard could it be?". That being said, we actually started self-funded with much less, however almost all profit has went into re-development and planning for the next generation of products.. something very necessary to continually do in order to progress the end-result.

Without anyone to learn this from, we had to teach ourselves and sometimes learn the hard way. I actually support the effort as I believe it will validify the prices we sold our equipment at.
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ezyfi-sc
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

anaptyx wrote:
I actually support the effort as I believe it will validify the prices we sold our equipment at.


Sorry, thought that was funny because it can be taken a couple of different ways.

I think you're the only one who's hit the nail on the head so far, though. We don't have the same goals. I am not starting a "venture". I am doing what I think can be my part in supporting ROBIN.

And while the project may in some ways offer similar options (if it ever comes to fruition, I am surprised by how seriously people are taking this spitball thread), it won't be in any way derivative of your or Aaron's work. The dual-radio versions of Robin are not in the repository any more, so I would have to start from scratch if I get serious about doing this.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow. I go away for awhile and all hell breaks loose.

ezyfi-sc: You probably know already that none of this is difficult. Getting a feverish child to go back to sleep is difficult.

Don't let them fool you. A friend recently reminded me that positive energy can change the world. I had lost sight of that. It just takes someone to start the wave. Look at Egypt. If we all focus on moving the ball forward instead of kicking it back, we'll get there. There are a lot of good intentions on this forum and perhaps a rebirth of Robin (sans OM) will come out of the collective energy.

P.S. Who invited this Chuck character?
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brecklandit
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

reverged wrote:

ezyfi-sc: You probably know already that none of this is difficult. Getting a feverish child to go back to sleep is difficult.

Don't let them fool you. A friend recently reminded me that positive energy can change the world. I had lost sight of that. It just takes someone to start the wave. Look at Egypt. If we all focus on moving the ball forward instead of kicking it back, we'll get there. There are a lot of good intentions on this forum and perhaps a rebirth of Robin (sans OM) will come out of the collective energy.


Positive thoughts are all very well, but taking your Egypt example - some people did'nt make it out of that event. THe same happens with Business ventures, some fail so don't assume its going to be easy.

We too are working on a 2/3 radio meshing kit -not using Robin but MT and RB products, and the time spend so far just on R&D , basic testing, and creating backend management (ie dashboard) is running into 4 months.

Thats 30 x 7 days, 8 hours a day earning no money., self funded. Thats over $32,000 in lost earning on this project, assuming i was taking my normal employed rate. It soon adds up

If this is somethng you want to do, make a go of it, just don't assume its an easy way to support yourself or the robin project. But think positive as well. Its never 'if we' its 'when we'. I always tell myself thats theres nothing I can't do , and so far, that can do will do attitude hasnt let me down.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's leave those bad vibes (wont even mention his name) out of this now. seriously -old new and gossip. You don't want to open that can of worms here.

So, after the UBNT conference, I was convinced that the Wisp industry is home to huge egos and Testosterone (check the tone of THEIR forum...) and now I am digging this positive outcomes, work together spirit. There is real passion for the ROBIN project.

We need to pick up the thread on holding a ROBIN user conference. Anaptx had started that idea. I am ready to help organize.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I absolutely agree - there is much that can be done here and we wouldn't spend so much time on it. I, for one, think a conference(s) would definitely be a great idea, you can push through months of work and ideas in a matter of hours.

The UBNT conference was definitely interesting/inspiring and it'd be cool if something comes together.

Ezy-fi - you can take my comment any way you please, it was not meant to be negative but simply to point out that what I think you are doing is admirable - and I think it would be good for the community. I am just frustrated with people who think all of the work the contributing members in this forum put in is "easy" or childs play that anyone can do. I'd love to see this and ROBIN succeed in general, I just think one of the most important things for people putting so much work in is definitely financial incentive. Even time aside, it is not cheap/easy to do this work regardless of what anyone says. It is very time consuming and the great people who make this project work deserve some monetization of their work.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Make a really great product => three-radio device with nearly no hop-to-hop decrease in performance. I would buy at least a few thousand if it is successful. Wink
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Send me around $900,000 and I'll send a couple thousand your way.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

foxtroop11 wrote:
Send me around $900,000 and I'll send a couple thousand your way.

Laughing
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