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Unusual OM1P failures

 
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coranet
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:22 pm    Post subject: Unusual OM1P failures Reply with quote

Over the past two years, we have installed a twenty node wifi network in a large campground in Colorado (ğwww.cloudtrax.com/overview2.php?id=cora). We use three access points to provide access to the Internet. We have five Pico2 HP units (r.3394 firmware) and fifteen OM1P units with r.2693-95 firmware. By and large, this system has worked well for us. However, we have been an unusual number of OM1P failures recently that have yet to be understood or resolved. To date, we have had ten units malfunctioning with one of two conditions.

First problem: OM1P unit connected to access point.

It appears that the OM1P units can be overloaded by a nearby 915mhz. radio link AP. We think that the RF field exposure compromises the units over a relatively short amount of time and causes the failure. Building construction and distance from the RF Link has always protected one of our AP’s. It has never had a failure. These units would not reflash.

A second AP suffered 4 failures in the past until we relocated the OM1p away from the RF Link, since then, no failures! Our failures this time were with units mounted near the newest 915 mhz. link in my absence. We now have the failures on this 3rd site.

Second problem: OM1P units receive sensitivity drop.

Another problem is the apparent failure of the radio circuitry in our systems nodes. We have several sites that have nodes that repeatedly have had this failure. Reflashing does not help. Mike has suggested a low voltage problem but the condition does not change with installing new power units. These units had great sensitivity when first installed, but became alligators (big mouth within days..

We suspect some kind of local environmental problem.

Any thoughts to guide us from here?
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

how do the ubnt pico's go in places where your problem nodes are?

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coranet
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:35 pm    Post subject: update on OM1P problems Reply with quote

I think we now know, for sure, why at least some of our OM1P units are failing. I received three new OM1P units last week. I reinstalled two of them, one at the far end of the campsite and one on my deck, on the far side of my camper, away from the access point. We have lost OM1Ps at these two points) I also covered the outside weather box with aluminum foil. The mast was about four feet above the top of my camper. the POE line ran into my camper, and plugged into the same power-strip as my desktop computer (ie, stable power). The unit came up and worked properly as an AP.

Two days later (Saturday) we had a very violent electrical storm. After 45 minutes or so, we lost power to the campground for about three hours. When the power came back, both sites stayed down. After close examination, there is no indication of a direct lightning hit. Nothing inside the boxes suggest a power hit/surge-no leaking caps etc.) The power-strip and the breaker, inside my camper never tripped.

Has anyone out there had problems with weather/lightning impacting OM1P units, or Pico2HP units for that matter?

Thanks.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Has anyone out there had problems with weather/lightning impacting OM1P units, or Pico2HP units for that matter?


There are posts on this topic

They suggest that it can be a problem

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:32 am    Post subject: Re: update on OM1P problems Reply with quote

Indirect lightning strikes can also be a contributing factor and wreak some serious havoc on equipment.
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coranet
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am really leaning toward lightning as a big contributor to our problems. What is interesting is that it seems to be knocking out the Ethernet ckt in the OM1P. The unit is transmitting but I can't reflash it. Seems the port is dead.

The other problem we are having with the OM1Ps is the receiver section of the unit looses sensitivity. We see a strong TX output, it can be reflashed, but it only sees one or two neighbors when a non-effected unit will see six or seven. We call it the "Alligator" condition-big mouth, small ears.

Anyone have similar failure modes?

For lightning suppression/arrestion...what devices have others used to mitigate this exposure?
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Antonio (isleman)
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
For lightning suppression/arrestion...what devices have others used to mitigate this exposure?

monthly sacrifices in honor of Jupiter would be appreciated Smile
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brecklandit
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coranet wrote:
I am really leaning toward lightning as a big contributor to our problems. What is interesting is that it seems to be knocking out the Ethernet ckt in the OM1P. The unit is transmitting but I can't reflash it. Seems the port is dead.

The other problem we are having with the OM1Ps is the receiver section of the unit looses sensitivity. We see a strong TX output, it can be reflashed, but it only sees one or two neighbors when a non-effected unit will see six or seven. We call it the "Alligator" condition-big mouth, small ears.

Anyone have similar failure modes?

For lightning suppression/arrestion...what devices have others used to mitigate this exposure?


Sounds like ESD issues. Does the OM1P have a shielded ethernet port?

If so, use shielded CAT5 cable, connect the shield at the OM1P connection, but leave the other end of the shied un connected (floating ground)

Make sure you earth from the antenna connector and the antenna to a good earth.

Using that setup has kept us ESD problem free.

If its not got shielded ports, switch it out with a unit that does such as the 2611P or UBNT equipment.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coranet wrote:
The unit is transmitting but I can't reflash it. Seems the port is dead.

That is (in almost every case) a straight indication that the device has been fried (in part) from ESD aka. Lightning. You will probably have to replace the affected nodes.

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coranet
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, a brick that talks!
We are thinking that if we use shielded CAT5 with an suppressor and a 110v arrester for the power module, with the unit on a grounded pole, that should reduce our problem. Got to do something, we have lost twelve units so far!
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coranet
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For those folks who are using OM1Ps and Open Mesh's Dashboard, what other units have you had success with? Particularly higher power units?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coranet wrote:
For those folks who are using OM1Ps and Open Mesh's Dashboard, what other units have you had success with? Particularly higher power units?


We only use EOC2611P for external, so far have lost a unit due to ESD. A few PSU have packed up though

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am VERY interested in your EOC2611P. How do you have it set up. Are you using OM dashboad-if so what is you network name? All of our OM1P and Pico2HP units are outside in the elements. Looking at the EOC2611P, it obviously has a greater range than the OM1Ps.
For lightning protection, how are you protecting the EOC2611P.

Thanks!
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coranet
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PSU? What unit is this?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coranet wrote:
PSU? What unit is this?


power supply unit

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coranet wrote:
I am VERY interested in your EOC2611P. How do you have it set up. Are you using OM dashboad-if so what is you network name? All of our OM1P and Pico2HP units are outside in the elements. Looking at the EOC2611P, it obviously has a greater range than the OM1Ps.
For lightning protection, how are you protecting the EOC2611P.

Thanks!


The EOC's are great.

For protection, all antenna pigtails are grounded to earth at the antenna.
CAT5 is using shieled floating eartch as detailed in a few posts above - just connecting shield at one end ( the AP end )

EOC+8DB external is a very good combo and utilised in 99.9% of our installs.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks! We have a campground wifi set up in Colorado. ('CORA' on the dashboard) We have three APs and 19 nodes, a combo of OM1Ps and Pico2HPs.
We are just beginning to consider changing out some of our gear for higher power and getting some higher bandwidth. I have been reading a number of posts to get up to speed with what is going in the "mesh" world. What is the current view of where this is going? Are most folks still using OM's dashboard? Is there a viable alternative?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coranet wrote:
Thanks! We have a campground wifi set up in Colorado. ('CORA' on the dashboard) We have three APs and 19 nodes, a combo of OM1Ps and Pico2HPs.
We are just beginning to consider changing out some of our gear for higher power and getting some higher bandwidth. I have been reading a number of posts to get up to speed with what is going in the "mesh" world. What is the current view of where this is going? Are most folks still using OM's dashboard? Is there a viable alternative?


We use our own dashboard and captive portal to set up apart from the competition - if you are serious about Networking and its your business, then look into this yourself.

Get your own dashboard though, and host it yourself. At the end of the day, you don't want the success of your business being reliant upon a 3rd party that you have no real control over.

We run many different hardware setups, all configured from our dashboard - not just robin as its worth having a fall back.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are thinking that we could give better service to our users if we could install some more powerful mesh routers around the campground, replacing the OM1P units. You can see our setup on the dashboard using "cora".

Any suggestions for more powerful units that work on the OM dashboard?

Thanks.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@coranet
I am also running a mesh network in a seasonal (7 months) campground. Network name= whitebirch. I am using all ubiquiti bullets for AP's and a Picostation2HP for a gateway.
Just a question, after I looked at your network, I see that you are not running the HP version of the firmware on your Pico2HP's?
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coranet
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are v.3386 on the picoHP2 units. "The HP version of the firmware?" Not sure what you are referring to. Since OM is not supporting these units I went to this ROBIN thread and flashed them with the instructions toward the end of the thread. It worked.
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What/how are you doing with the HP2?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coranet wrote:
We are v.3386 on the picoHP2 units. "The HP version of the firmware?" Not sure what you are referring to. Since OM is not supporting these units I went to this ROBIN thread and flashed them with the instructions toward the end of the thread. It worked.
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What/how are you doing with the HP2?

You need to run the HP firmware on HP nodes or else you are going to have very serious issues. You can download the firmware from here:

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coranet
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I used the openwrt-atheros-ubnt2-pico2-squashfs.bin file to reflash the HP2 units, seems to work ok.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@coranet
I think you used the files from:
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You need to use the files from:

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For my Pico2HP's, I ssh into each of the node that I want to upgrade and paste this command:
wget -P/sbin/

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&& chmod +x /sbin/upgrade.sh && uci -f /etc/config/management set management.enable.update=1 && /sbin/upgrade.sh

IMO, the files you used may "seem" to work, but some unexplainable issues arise.

Quote:
What/how are you doing with the HP2?


I've had better luck running Pico2HP's as gateways, not repeaters. They get finicky sometimes, but all in all, I've had much better luck with them as gateways. They have been through the high wind, rain and electric storms. The network has gone down, but has always come back.
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