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Success with EAP3660? Anyone?

 
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:15 am    Post subject: Success with EAP3660? Anyone? Reply with quote

Has anyone actually had success running robin-mesh/open-mesh on the 3660's?
I've tried what open-mesh is currently pushing out r2695 and has nodes that would 'go down' (quit checking in) after a few days and require a power cycle to come back up, I've seen lots of talk around here and elsewhere about just not enough memory on these bad boys.... lately I've also tried r3xxx (r3625 I think) after reading a couple of people have had some success with that, still to no avail, these nodes just wont stay up
Any hints would be appreciated
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

check reboot reasons

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When they require a power cycle cause they quit checking in and can't be ssh'd into there is no reboot reason
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you need a serial cable

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have two EAP-3660's in production right now, running r2690. One of them goes down about once a week and I have to powercycle.

I definitely don't recommend it. At the same site I have 2 ECB3500's and they do much better, but I think ive had to powercycle them once at least in the past 5 months.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ispyisail wrote:
you need a serial cable


I really am confused by this. What are you referring to as a "serial" cable?

and where would we connect it? the ethernet port?

I must be missing something. Could you help me out?

Thanks...

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codyc1515
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A serial cable is a special type of cable that allows you direct access to the device regardless of the firmware, be it robin-mesh or otherwise.

drobson wrote:
ispyisail wrote:
you need a serial cable


I really am confused by this. What are you referring to as a "serial" cable?

and where would we connect it? the ethernet port?

I must be missing something. Could you help me out?

Thanks...

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ispyisail wrote:
http://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/hardware/serial.cable

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Very useful information. I do actually know what a serial cable is. My question was more so along the lines of how to connect a serial cable when there is no serial port on the hardware in question. That is interesting information as far as how to connect a serial port to the ap, but really it doesn't seem all that practical.

I really don't know how I would be able to justify installing a serial port in hundreds of access points simply to retrieve the reboot reasons.

In theory your solution is awesome, but in practice, in the world where time equals money, not really all that sensible.

but thanks anyway. I learned something. Good stuff.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its for fault finding single nodes, not entire networks

You need to open the case of your device

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ispyisail wrote:
Its for fault finding single nodes, not entire networks

You need to open the case of your device

Got it. Makes sense. The problem with these EAP-3660 devices is that they are all problems... Very Happy

Seriously Thanks.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The problem with these EAP-3660 devices is that they are all problems..


Fix one should fix them all

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lots of theory. That's great. You haven't actually run any of these in a production network have you?

The reason I ask, is because your answers are all very impractical. As knowledgeable as what you are saying may seem, I would find it very difficult to believe that an installer would have the time to install a serial port into each and every node, or benefit from ANY of your suggestions in terms of a cost benefit analysis.

For instance, a problem node is easier to replace then to pull the cover off, after you know it's a problem, install a serial port, and then wait to see what happens.

Also fix one, fix them all is a great theory if you forget about RF, co-channel interference, possible issues with the wired connection, and many more variables.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your input. I appreciate your theory, but I find it really hard to believe that you have done much in the terms of design, installation, and maintenance.

No offense. It's simply that your "solutions" are nothing more than band-aids at best, and anyone implementing them would have wasted valuable time, rather than looking at the root cause of the problem.

Once again, if I offended you I apologize. That was not my intention. I just hope some newbie doesn't mistakenly waste the time to follow your suggestions while there are more cost effective solutions than what you have suggested.


Thanks again,

Dan

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are correct

Where possible use SSH to view the logread, this is practical in the field.

When in your lab when a node wont boot or other and SSH won't work you will need a serial cable to recover this node or other problem. Of cause you could just throw the node away.

I would suggest installers should have a small test environment before deployment. You are correct that this does not simulate a real world setup..............


Everyone to their own

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drobson wrote:
lots of theory. That's great. You haven't actually run any of these in a production network have you?


I Have, and still do. They don't cause me any more problems than other nodes such as 1650,2610,2611,M35 and M3500. It took a little while to get all my configs how i want them, but so far my 3660 work just fine.

As a pro installer, I wont commit units to the field until they work as I want - if you spend the time getting one unit working now its very east to apply the settings network wide regardless of the issues you mention can easily be adjusted through dashboard settings.

If you are running these units through a hosted dashboard I think you can forget them - if you have the time to develop your own management and tweak the firmware then you should have no problems whatsoever.

Can you not install the Engenius light meshing firmware onto the units, and use a gateway controller such as the MT750 if you really cant get Robin to work as desired?

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

brecklandit: You mind sharing the changes that you made to robin that you mentioned?

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

codyc1515 wrote:
brecklandit: You mind sharing the changes that you made to robin that you mentioned?


Ive said before, I don't make changes to the firmware that aren't already published, with the exception of a compiled NDS. What i do is this:

Download firmware, in this case its 3320. Go into Robin and change all the settings in /etc/config/ and etc/cp.conf so the units start with the settings I want, and check into the dashboard i want, so that when I flash a new unit, its ready to go.

I then have a custom.sh that pulls down files from a patches folder on the server - these patches are just cherry picked from the svn to fix any immediate problems that affect me. I wont upgrade nodes , once they are working - they stay on the same version until i am next on site to do a manual upgrade.

I mostly only run NDS, and no traffic is allowed through the firewall until authorized , so i can track all usage.

The biggest changes are to the dashboard - I dont run one like the rest of yours. My dashboard is non-technical from the users point of view, you add a site ( which has things like a name, address and stuff) and you add nodes to a site. Network settings are not exposed to the customers.

The dashboard batman-checkin php is a complete rewrite to only send the information to the nodes that I want - nothing clever, just stripping out options that have already been seen in the firmare so I dont keep updating them.

I used to get quite a few locks up around september, but as Antonio updated the sytems and i patched mine with those updates, the system is rock solid now - the only calls i have made to check on downed nodes have been due to no internet on site.

All units are placed well, with good signal strengths. Correct antennas are used if (with exception of 3660 which is internal only) and a full site survey using a spectrum analyser is carried out prior to installation to allow us to chose the best settings for the mesh network.

I dont think im doing anything different to the rest of you, just taking the time to get to know how the systems works before setting up a business to install them.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

correction: its 3620 thats the firmware we use - for no other reason than that was the last one i downloaded fully.

Will be switching to latest version and preparing a new build as Antonio and Cody have submitted so many updates in the last few months.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brecklandit wrote:
drobson wrote:
lots of theory. That's great. You haven't actually run any of these in a production network have you?


I Have, and still do. They don't cause me any more problems than other nodes such as 1650,2610,2611,M35 and M3500. It took a little while to get all my configs how i want them, but so far my 3660 work just fine.

As a pro installer, I wont commit units to the field until they work as I want - if you spend the time getting one unit working now its very east to apply the settings network wide regardless of the issues you mention can easily be adjusted through dashboard settings.

If you are running these units through a hosted dashboard I think you can forget them - if you have the time to develop your own management and tweak the firmware then you should have no problems whatsoever.

Can you not install the Engenius light meshing firmware onto the units, and use a gateway controller such as the MT750 if you really cant get Robin to work as desired?


We are running these through a hosted dashboard. We also did some rigorous testing before these units went live. I think you're exactly right as far as the benefits of using the gateway controller. However, due to the multiple sources of the bandwidth (50Mbps fiber + 2 separate 75Mbps cable modems + wimax backhauls from another service provider) the gateway controllers would all have to pull from one nasid to allow the clients to be able to roam, be it not seamlessly.

I'm pretty sure that the load that is placed on these when utilizing coovachilli simply gets to be too much for them to handle. These definitely have an application that suits their capabilities. Running a mesh with layer 3 routing for a large network is probably not one of them.

We've made our tweaks and what not. The network is stable at this point, but I really think we probably should have just stuck with the stock firmware or openwrt, some gateway controllers, and stayed away from running robin on all of these units. We have close to 100 of them deployed at this location.

Oh well, different applications for different places.

Thanks for all of the advice and tips guys. I really appreciate it.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See, we've been running the 2693 firmware on these. From what I have been reading, it seems like maybe the beta 1.6 trunk might be a bit better. We've been spending a lot of time on the server side of things lately. It's just now that I'm becoming able to revisit the firmware. A lot has changed in a short period of time. I'm highly impressed with cody cooper's work.

I really don't feel comfortable using NDS for authentication. There are a couple of ideas that I have to take a bit of the load off of the access points. I'll be playing around with that this week. I'll start testing different firmwares as well.

Thanks again, for all of the tips.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drobson wrote:


I really don't feel comfortable using NDS for authentication. There are a couple of ideas that I have to take a bit of the load off of the access points. I'll be playing around with that this week. I'll start testing different firmwares as well.

Thanks again, for all of the tips.


Ive never tried chilli on these units due to the low spec - i will set one up with chilli and do some test to see how it works.

NDS seems to have far lower overheads, and I will be submitting some changes to Cody later this week that will allow NDS to be 100% secure due to an encrypted token.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brecklandit wrote:
drobson wrote:


I really don't feel comfortable using NDS for authentication. There are a couple of ideas that I have to take a bit of the load off of the access points. I'll be playing around with that this week. I'll start testing different firmwares as well.

Thanks again, for all of the tips.


Ive never tried chilli on these units due to the low spec - i will set one up with chilli and do some test to see how it works.

NDS seems to have far lower overheads, and I will be submitting some changes to Cody later this week that will allow NDS to be 100% secure due to an encrypted token.

I had seen you and cody mention that in another thread. I think that would be a great workaround. Ideally, our goal is to maintain our hosted dashboard/radius server and allow all of our deployments to be managed from one centralized server.

A bit off topic here, but something I have been playing around with is incorporating something along the lines of ossec into the system. I think that the more that we utilize mature software, the better the network will be. I just started testing a few things this weekend with the nodes and ossec, but I think that there might be a useful application there. It might aid us towards achieving a truly self healing network so to speak.

I'll let you know how that goes, and I look forward to seeing the results of your tinkering with no dog.

Isn't open source a great thing when the community works like a community?

Good stuff, and thanks again.

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