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Open-mesh w/ Pico2HP

 
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bstamper
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:22 pm    Post subject: Open-mesh w/ Pico2HP Reply with quote

This is my first post, I must say I'm a little confused on the tie if any between open-mesh and robin here. Seems to be one but as I've read some of the posts here it would appear maybe open-mesh is slowing heading their own direction? None the less I hope this is the proper place to post this. First, I have many apartment complexes today that we manage internet as an amenity. All of these have been traditional wireless networks with pfsense as a gateway. I came across open mesh when looking at the Pico2HP's from Ubiquiti to use as a regular AP. Being a Cisco wireless guy I was skeptical but looking at the prices and all the people here as I've read thru the board trying to get a handle on just how this works. I've struggled to really understand the technology from a Layer2/Layer3 perspective. So, what I think I know.
1. Open-mesh has 2 "lines of code". The old code and the new ng code. From my understanding on everything I've read the main difference is the new ng code would support "gateway" mode that would essentially turn the mesh network into 1 large layer 3 broadcast domain? Am i correct here?
2. On the old code how does the mesh work from a layer 3 perspective. Where are my NAT boundries. Is every AP then a new NAT boundary? If this is the case would it simply be the same as taking a bunch of wired broadband routers and piggy backing them one to another to another crating double and triple NAT boundaries to the main gateway connected to the internet?
3. With the NG code. If i was to have 2 gateways to the internet how would this work from the client perspective. How does the client/ap know where to go to the gateway and if one failed how would the others know to redirect away from that gateway to the other..
4. The idea i've read over and over is the "self healing" network. Is there anyway that not just the gateway be monitored but the internet connection itself. My question stems from if I have a mesh using NG code with 2 gateways and each connects to a different ISP. If the internet connection on one of the gateways dies do the AP's utilizing that gateway failover to the other or do we have an outage cause as far as anyone knows the gateway itself is still fine.
5. How about the pico2HP's? They work pretty well when flashed open-mesh? I have a few of these coming to test but am curious as to how they ahve worked for people. I have read this forum for hours but dont see much about them in "current" posts.
6. Any advice for someone new getting into the open-mesh?

Thanks all in advance for taking any time to help address any of these questions! I'm excited to see how this works and have dropped lots of time into reading this forum.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

welcome to the forum, just some tips to shed some lights...

Quote:
1. Open-mesh has 2 "lines of code". The old code and the new ng code. From my understanding on everything I've read the main difference is the new ng code would support "gateway" mode that would essentially turn the mesh network into 1 large layer 3 broadcast domain? Am i correct here?

Many people still confuse open-mesh and Robin and think that the two are the same thing: unfortunatelly, the name "Robin" has always been behind the scenes while the name "open-mesh" took the applauses Smile

In short, originally (2008) open-mesh.com started ditributing the open-source Robin as their official firmware, pre-flashed on their routers MR3201A and OM1P. Open-mesh has gracefully supported the development of Robin in 2008,2009 up to December 2010, meanwhile they started to develop their own firmware (the so-called ng).

To be clear, I want to reiterate one more time that the support from open-mesh has been decisive for the growth of the Robin mesh OSS projetc, thanks again to Mike!

Since they ceased to support the 'open-source' code Robin, open-mesh at present has only the 'ng' as their official firmware (but unfortunatelly closed-source and proprietary). So, Robin is not the 'old code' but the 'open.source' code and no-more-supported one.

open-mesh ng makes mesh at L/2 running batmand-adv daemon
Robin makes mesh at L/3 running olsrd daemon

inside a Robin mesh network there is only one NAT at the node the client is currently associated with and - thats's obvious - at internet gateway.
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bstamper
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks so much for the reply. As I've spent the time here reading thru posts I think the only good way to start to understand it is to get the hardware and start testing and playing. I'm looking forward to it.

One Question. The how-to's all talk about bringing up the first node. Of course this is hardwired and connected to the internet. I understand that. What about the second and the nodes after that? Should the first node be left at the default ssid until all nodes are in place? I mean if they aren't hardwired to anything do they just come up, see the other node online with the same default ssid and mesh automatically?
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need that at least one gateway (i.e. the node wired to DSL modem) be up and working, repeaters (nodes which are not wired) will scan the air looking for a robin-gateway. Once one robin gateway is detected on a certain channel the repeater sets its own working channel accordingly and reboots on it.
Since there is no process of IBSS-merge (Robin works in ahdemo mode hence Robin mesh VAP doesn't send any beacons) meshing is performed utilizing a shared, well-known and hardcoded Cell-ID... 'two caffee babe', 02:ca:ff:ee:ba:be Smile
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bstamper
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK there went a light bulb. So it (the mesh) doesn't have anything to do with the SSID. I've been to ingrained in "conventional" wireless over the years in that I assumed in order to "connect" to each other at all the nodes would have to have the same ssid like a conventional point to point or point to multipoint! You've been very helpful!! I appreciate it!
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smile

anyway you'll meet the SSID stuff about the VAP in master mode just because Robin uses the Ahdemo VAP (ath0) to create the mesh as a backbone and the accesspoint VAP (ath1) to give client access.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bstamper you have met the developer of Robin Antonio. He is always a great help!

TO answer your question of redundant gateways; the answer is yes if one gateway goes down the mesh will revert to the other gateway. My network is set up that way. It takes about 20 minutes for all the nodes to go the other way and you may have slower internet on node 2-3 hops from the alternate gateway but you network will stay up.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats great to hear. My application is all just "internet as an amenity" and dormitory type stuff so by the time I get notified that a node is down life should be good. But what about the case where the gateway node doesn't go down but the internet connection its on does. If i'm utilizing different carriers on gateways and one carrier has an issue. Will the gateway somehow realize it can't get back to the cloud controller and start diverting traffic back to the other along with the nodes that were using it as their gateway?
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My experience with the Pico2 HP is that they are Very powerful but VERY finicky. I have had considerable issues getting them to flash properly, once flashed they work great as a gateway but not so good as a repeater because I use mostly OM1P's and they will not connect to a Pico 2HP if another OM1P is available. You may have better luck using all Pico 2HP's but remember they are powerful so don't put them to close together.

When they loose internet connection and revert to repeater mode it takes them a long time to go back to Gateway on their own. If you SSH into them and give "reboot" command they will usually come back up as a gateway. (Though I do have a problem presently with one that will not become a gateway even though the internet is up)

I have also lost one for an unknown reason. It just stop broadcasting. All the light are on and a reflash didn't work.

I have tried to find a substitute but the other powerful nodes are either directional or, in the case of the Bullet HP you have to buy a $13 power supply and a $15 omni antenna along with the $79 node.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well thats my goal on the power side. I wont have to many and yet they will be strong enough to connect to the 1 or 2 in the adjacent building and yet placed well enough that they will cover the current building for clients. We'll see if that will work out for me. With the buildings as close together as they are I hope it'll work right.
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all.

I am in the process of switching systems and looking around for a stable solutions and came across this thread.

I usually run Pico 2hp units but have had trouble getting them to work with open-mesh (which is what I used to use).

I began looking around here for a firmware for the pico's (someone like to point me in the direction of that please) and I can reuse my existing ones. However I read that people dont think they pico's are a good choice.

What would be a better choice?
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the majority of my network is pico2hp's they work great with Robin-Mesh r3713. I haven't put the latest r3813 through it's paces yet, but so far it looks good.

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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that. I seem to be getting somewhere with various bits of help. Can you give me a link to the firmware? From what I have read I use 2 files with the fonflash thingo....

Again, thanks for the help... I was starting to pull my hair out and was looking at buying other types of units
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@secs

don't bother with fonflash method anymore. The easiest way to flash these is to follow these instructions from Ubiquiti as if you were installing the original UBNT firmware via TFTP but instead use the robin-mesh firmware.
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works every single time. no need to catch the bootloader like previous firmware installers.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Y-FI wrote:
@secs

don't bother with fonflash method anymore. The easiest way to flash these is to follow these instructions from Ubiquiti as if you were installing the original UBNT firmware via TFTP but instead use the robin-mesh firmware.
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works every single time. no need to catch the bootloader like previous firmware installers.


Hello,

This is my first post, I'm new in this forum. I present myself, I'm student and I'm working on an UGV project. My aim is to create a mesh network between an UGV, its command post and some repeater. actually the vehicle is the access point and the command post is the station, there are equipped with ubiquiti Pico2HP devices. I would like to put one (for begnning and more after) Pico between their for increase the covered area to turn around buildings for example or go far away.

To succeed in this project I have to flashe my PicoStation2HP with an open-mesh or robin-mesh firmware. Reading this forum for several hours I found many ways to flash a PicoStation, and some people who couldn't go back to AirOS because they failed.

So I would like your help to know wich method (fon-flash, TFTP, Ubiquiti, Ap51-flash ...) is the best adapted for my Pico and if I could go back to AirOs after flashing with a robinmesh frimware ?

I think I need a open-mesh firmware because my mesh network will not connect to internet. And so, can I use Ap51flash or I should choose an other method ?

Thank you for your help

Kabu

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
and if I could go back to AirOs after flashing with a robinmesh frimware ?


yes you can go back
Quote:

So I would like your help to know wich method (fon-flash, TFTP, Ubiquiti, Ap51-flash ...) is the best adapted for my Pico and if I could go back to AirOs after flashing with a robinmesh frimware ?


you choose, whatever works. If in doubt use the official method TFTP

Quote:
I think I need a open-mesh firmware because my mesh network will not connect to internet. And so, can I use Ap51flash or I should choose an other method ?


I'm not sure about this. both open-mesh.com and ROBIN firmware are designed to work with a dashboards (internet) but there are work around

do a search on e-mesh

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok ok thank you for your answer, and for the firmware version, I think I could choose the R2690, it's the latest stable version for the robin firmware, that's it ?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If i understand your idea correctly, your UGV will likely have issues as it roams from one access node to the next. Wifi doesn't yet do very good hand-off, and the mesh recovery if a node loses it's gateway and needs to bounce to a new gateway is not instantaneous. it takes several minutes at best.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, indeed the idea is to create a nodes in a mesh to find the best way to go to point A to point B.

The problem is that I'm novice and I don't know how create this mesh.

I tried flashing pico but I don't succeeded with the official tftp method. After flashing i've no pop-up to controle the Pico like the AirOs. I ping my Pico and I've no answer. I try to access to URL of Pico but there's nothing there.

I've a question for you Y-FI, I could read that you're a confirmed user of pico-mesh Wink, after flashing we loose AirOs interface so how can we manage the Pico ?

It's with the dashboard like cloudtrax i guess ? I don't find the way to configure the pico so i'm a little lost ... :S

I would like your opinion. Maybe I think totally in the wrong way ...

To flash I use a file find in the wiki, maybe i haven't the good version of firmware to put in. This is this one: openwrt-atheros-ubnt2-pico2-squashfs.bin which i download at this link
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(sorry for my writing if there is spelling and tense mistakes)

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The simplist way I find is this.

Use the Open Mesh flash tool which has firmware r2695
Then check it has logged into the dashboard
Go to the advanced tab and untick Disable Automatic Upgrades and tick Test Firmware
Then enter
Code:
svn6.assembla.com/svn/RobinMesh/custom-scripts/110/
into custom.sh Server, tick Enable custom.sh
Click Update Network Settings.

It will then upgrade to the latest firmware made specifically for the pico2hp, This can take an hour or so.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kabuland wrote:
I think I could choose the R2690, it's the latest stable version for the robin firmware, that's it ?

No, r3828 is the latest stable firmware.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kabuland

once you install robin-mesh firmware there are several ways to control the config, but most are based around using a dashboard such as cloudtrax or robin-dash or others.

Best place is to start digging through the wiki for more information.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Y-FI wrote:
kabuland

once you install robin-mesh firmware there are several ways to control the config, but most are based around using a dashboard such as cloudtrax or robin-dash or others.

Best place is to start digging through the wiki for more information.
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Thanx for the answer. In reality I think I flashed the Pico the first time but I don't see it because this wasn't what I was waiting for. I Didn't understand we need to connect to the dashboard with an internet connection. I thinked it was operational even in local without internet but i was wrong. So to use the cloudtrax dashboard we have to be connected to an internet connection.

So, I would like to know if a dashboard (maybe robin-dash ?) exists, in local, one which don't need to connect to internet to be functional ?
If you know if there's one existing and also if the firmware is compatible.

Thank you for your help

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you haven't yet, you may find it useful to look at the section of this forum: Internetless mesh networking
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sronan wrote:
If you haven't yet, you may find it useful to look at the section of this forum: Internetless mesh networking
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Yes, I seen this thread but I don't find any answer I would like.
The e-mesh isn't achieve and I would like to know if the Robin's team have create an other solutions to design a local dashboard.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:47 am    Post subject: Flashing Pico2HP Reply with quote

Hi,

I'm new to the forum. I have an Open-Mesh network of Pico2HPs and OM1Ps. One of the Pico2HPs died so I need to replace it. I tried to buy it pre-flashed with Open-Mesh, couldn't, and discoverd the whole NG/Robin split.

Anyway, I used the method of tftp'ing this file to the Pico2HP: openwrt-atheros-ubnt2-pico2-squashfs. The Pico2HP blinks during the flashing, then stops. But the Pico2HP doesn't show up in the Open-Mesh console.

Any help?

Thanks, Glenn
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:06 am    Post subject: Re: Flashing Pico2HP Reply with quote

glennlharvey wrote:
Hi,

I'm new to the forum. I have an Open-Mesh network of Pico2HPs and OM1Ps. One of the Pico2HPs died so I need to replace it. I tried to buy it pre-flashed with Open-Mesh, couldn't, and discoverd the whole NG/Robin split.

Anyway, I used the method of tftp'ing this file to the Pico2HP: openwrt-atheros-ubnt2-pico2-squashfs. The Pico2HP blinks during the flashing, then stops. But the Pico2HP doesn't show up in the Open-Mesh console.

Any help?

Thanks, Glenn

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:09 am    Post subject: Re: Flashing Pico2HP Reply with quote

codyc1515 wrote:
glennlharvey wrote:
Hi,

Anyway, I used the method of tftp'ing this file to the Pico2HP: openwrt-atheros-ubnt2-pico2-squashfs. The Pico2HP blinks during the flashing, then stops. But the Pico2HP doesn't show up in the Open-Mesh console.

Any help?

Thanks, Glenn

PM sent.


Hello guys,

I'm also running an open-mesh with 5x OMP1 and 2x Pico2HP.

My question is : Will the Pico2HP update properly if I check "NG Firmware:" on the Cloudtrax dashboard?

Thanks

Gilbert
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:24 am    Post subject: Re: Flashing Pico2HP Reply with quote

gaumerd wrote:
codyc1515 wrote:
glennlharvey wrote:
Hi,

Anyway, I used the method of tftp'ing this file to the Pico2HP: openwrt-atheros-ubnt2-pico2-squashfs. The Pico2HP blinks during the flashing, then stops. But the Pico2HP doesn't show up in the Open-Mesh console.

Any help?

Thanks, Glenn

PM sent.


Hello guys,

I'm also running an open-mesh with 5x OMP1 and 2x Pico2HP.

My question is : Will the Pico2HP update properly if I check "NG Firmware:" on the Cloudtrax dashboard?

Thanks

Gilbert

Open-Mesh NG (which is not robin-mesh) does not support non open-mesh hardware.

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