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[IDENTIFIED] Problem with dumb network devices (hubs)

 
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lokkju
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:07 am    Post subject: [IDENTIFIED] Problem with dumb network devices (hubs) Reply with quote

I have a few Pico2 (not -HP) here that I'm trying to get working. I used the beta 1.4 pico2hp build, and it flashed and booted fine (I'm using a rs232 console connection).
My problem is that eth0 never seems to do anything - it never gets an IP, and it never even requests one.
I have the pico connected to my cable router through a hub, so I'm able to use wireshark and watch all the traffic - and nothing comes through from the picostation, other then it's initial ARPs for 192.168.1.20.

Am I missing something here?

Thanks


Last edited by lokkju on Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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jesterz
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:57 pm    Post subject: Hmmm Reply with quote

It seems to me I read somewhere either here or on Open-Mesh not to use the PicoHP firmware on regular Picos because you will brick them. Seems the architecture between the two is different. But now I see what the problem is... With the eth0 disabled, you won't be able to flash it back. I hope that the reset button works for you. Otherwise, you might have a paperweight on your hands Sad ... Good luck.

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ispyisail
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
(I'm using a rs232 console connection).


Im assuming this means you have a serial connection and you can watch the boot sequence.

If this is the case can you send us a screen shot of the end of the boot sequence?

You should be able to run linux commands from this prompt?

Can you send pictures of you console connection, i would like to see how its done?
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lokkju
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like this has something to do with being put through a hub - perhaps a hub throws off it's topology discovery or something?
if I connect it to a switch, it comes up just fine, but if it is on a hub, it never does.

I will post some screenlogs if it still does it after I play with it more.

jesterz - I have serial redboot access, so it would take a LOT to actually brick this thing. What you are thinking of is old vs new picos, afaik - the old ones were 4MB.

ispyisail - I can probably throw up a wiki page on doing a console connection, but it is pretty basic - use a 3.3v RS232 level converter (mine is also a USB to rs232), and connect it to the board.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I can probably throw up a wiki page on doing a console connection


That would be good
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if a crossover cable would make any difference?
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lokkju
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, it communicated with the network fine - for instance, I can telnet into redboot through the hub. The issue is it simply never sends the dhcp request for an ip for eth0
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ispyisail
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
No, it communicated with the network fine - for instance, I can telnet into redboot through the hub. The issue is it simply never sends the dhcp request for an ip for eth0


Im guessing that your node works as a "gateway" and gets an IP address from your DSL router but when your node is setup as as "repeater" and trys to send out an IP address to a client it fails?
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lokkju
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sort of.

It should be a gateway - it has a ethernet connection weathr on a hub or a switch. The problem is that it never sends out a DHCP request for an ip. What is it's method for discovering if it is a gateway or a repeater?
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Quote:

The problem is that it never sends out a DHCP request for an ip.


How do you know this?

I am a little confused about your node!

Do you understand "IP Space" of ROBIN nodes?

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What is your "eth0" IP address? and where did it come from?
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Fredsnet
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hubs differ greatly from switches. Hubs have historically caused trouble.

When a hub receives a packet or a frame of data at one of its ports it transmits (repeats) the packet to all of its ports and, thus, to all of the other nodes or PCs connected to it. If two or more nodes or PCs on the network try to send packets at the same time a collision occurs.

Ethernet Adapters have both a receiver and a transmitter. If the adapters didn't have to listen with their receivers for collisions they would be able to send data at the same time they are receiving it (full duplex). Because they have to operate at half duplex (data flows one way at a time) and a hub retransmits data from one adapter to all of them.

An Ethernet switch automatically divides the network into multiple segments, acts as a high-speed, selective bridge between the segments, and supports simultaneous connections of multiple pairs of computers which don't compete with other pairs of computers for network bandwidth. It accomplishes this by maintaining a table of each destination address and its port. When the switch receives a packet, it reads the destination address from the header information in the packet, establishes a temporary connection between the source and destination ports, sends the packet on its way, and then terminates the connection, Full duplex.

Fred
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lokkju
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ispyisail - I know this because I am running wireshark on another system attached to the hub.
My setup is like this:

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Fredsnet - I'm not really sure what your point is, I think most people (here) know the difference between a switch and a hub.
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ispyisail
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Fredsnet - I'm not really sure what your point is, I think most people (here) know the difference between a switch and a hub.


LOL

Be nice, If we all only posted the perfect answer to every problem there wouldn't be many posts. I though Fredsnet post was good. In fact if nobody objects i might post it on the wiki.

Are you aware that ROBIN has problems with some DSL routers?

Are you aware that some apple imac's have had problems with ROBIN?

I guess the problem is compounded because the nanostation2 is so new
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ispyisail
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
My problem is that eth0 never seems to do anything - it never gets an IP, and it never even requests one.
I have the pico connected to my cable router through a hub, so I'm able to use wireshark and watch all the traffic - and nothing comes through from the picostation, other then it's initial ARPs for 192.168.1.20.


Quote:
It looks like this has something to do with being put through a hub - perhaps a hub throws off it's topology discovery or something?
if I connect it to a switch, it comes up just fine, but if it is on a hub, it never does.


Why do you want to use a hub?

Why don't you use a switch instead?

I wonder if this not a new problem. But a problem that hasn't been discovered because nobody uses hubs???
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lokkju
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm using a hub so that I can monitor the node's network communications using wireshark on a different system.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wondered about that

ROBIN has a package that can be installed to do the same job.
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lokkju
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's not the same at all.
Running wireshark on a separate machine lets me see all traffic going over the wire, without worrying about what the node is doing.
As an example, the only way to see what it is doing on the network (such as in redboot) before it boots into the kernel is using wireshark in this manner.
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lokkju
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found the problem, it is an issue in /etc/init.d/dhcp-discover, line 42:
Code:
if /usr/sbin/mii-tool -v |head -n 1 |grep negotiated ; then


If you are using a smart device, like a switch, then the output of the mii-tool command is:
Code:
eth0: negotiated 100baseTx-FD, link ok
  product info: vendor 00:08:85, model 33 rev 9
  basic mode:   autonegotiation enabled
  basic status: autonegotiation complete, link ok
  capabilities: 100baseTx-FD 100baseTx-HD 10baseT-FD 10baseT-HD
  advertising:  100baseTx-FD 100baseTx-HD 10baseT-FD 10baseT-HD
  link partner: 100baseTx-FD 100baseTx-HD 10baseT-FD 10baseT-HD flow-control


BUT, if you are using a dumb device, like a hub, the output is:
Code:
eth0: no autonegotiation, 10baseT-HD, link ok
  product info: vendor 00:08:85, model 33 rev 9
  basic mode:   autonegotiation enabled
  basic status: autonegotiation complete, link ok
  capabilities: 100baseTx-FD 100baseTx-HD 10baseT-FD 10baseT-HD
  advertising:  100baseTx-FD 100baseTx-HD 10baseT-FD 10baseT-HD
  link partner: 10baseT-HD


Perhaps this should be changed to just check for "link ok", like so:
Code:
if /usr/sbin/mii-tool -v |head -n 1 |grep "link ok"; then


This should do the same job, but it will work anytime there is a good link. Since all this does is decide if we should send a DHCP request or not, I don't see any disadvantage.

For comparison, this is the output of mii-tool -v when there is no ethernet cable connected:

Code:
eth0: no link
  product info: vendor 00:08:85, model 33 rev 9
  basic mode:   autonegotiation enabled
  basic status: no link
  capabilities: 100baseTx-FD 100baseTx-HD 10baseT-FD 10baseT-HD
  advertising:  100baseTx-FD 100baseTx-HD 10baseT-FD 10baseT-HD
  link partner: 100baseTx-FD 100baseTx-HD 10baseT-FD 10baseT-HD flow-control
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Antonio (isleman)
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, I apreciate it.... that was a my mistake!
I'll add then fix in the coming test vesrion.

Antonio
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jesterz
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@lokkju

Well that's what I get for not paying attention... Some how I missed the part about the console connection. Oh well... Carry on and pay no attention to the dork in the corner Rolling Eyes

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